Imagine that, if the unions had gotten the employees to make pension payments, it would have saved that much money, as listed above in the article. Isn't that what was requested from the start of this, until unions reopened contracts and messed their own crap up. How about this headline. "Teachers and State workers save the state from bankruptcy." Nope instead all you have is arguing about everything that you have listed below. By the way, the state has not increased taxes, it is the local governments that are raising the property taxes on us to compensate for toooooo much spending.

Seriously... the automated self service checkout lanes are now the anti-union/anti-job target?

How about, I shop at Woodmans - employee owned - and use the self service checkout lane when its busy and I have a few items? Am I costing american jobs now?

I wonder how quickly our buddies at UAW would be clamoring for a walkout of some kind if GM Headquarters would have the temerity to ask for concessions. And gee, wouldn't much of Janesville spring to their defense! Good old economic black mail that most educators would not do even if it was legal!
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But here many of you sit in, sometimes, in jealous judgement of your friends and neighbors, perhaps relatives, who teach! Many of you even admit that you could never do what those teachers do.
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[ Wouldn't it be interesting to know how many of you "pro union" or "we need jobs" folks use the automated checkout machines at the grocery store. ]

Public employees would not voluntarily pay union dues unless they were getting a much better compensation deal than they could get in the private sector. The reason why property taxes are excessive is because public employees compensation has not yet been globalized as has been the case for approx. 90% of the private sector. Abuses in public sector pay, such as school bus drivers earning $150k and double-dipping, have infuriated the masses. Those earning lower global wages are forced via taxation to support the excessive compensation of public sector employees, which amounts to extortion. The reality is that property taxes need to be decreased which means public sector pay needs to be cut.

And for "kidsfirst" and all of you that think everything in the world should revolve around kids, how about rethinking. If it weren't for adults (taxpayers), there wouldn't be any kids. Think about it.

The 'fruit' is the plum the teachers have already harvested when the spinless school board gave away the orchard during negotiations. Parr seems to be quite full of himself in his latest statement that the union will have to get something to give something. This "we'll talk again" story is like publishing one on the plant reopening.

No

luvujvl, your calculations show her salary must be about $66k, since 5.8% of salary goes into the WRS fund.

Perhaps the school board could offer resources to study the impact of some federal regulations. And support efforts to get those repealed or fixed, so that we do have a public education system worth bragging about.

skinnypuppy, one of us is confused. Maybe it's you, maybe it's me. If your friend's 5.8% contribution to her pension plan comes out to $160 per check, that means that about $66,000 a year would be going into her pension fund. $66,000 x 5.8% = $3828; that divided by 24 checks = $159.50 per check. So, either your information is skewed, or I grossly misunderstand this issue, or her pension fund is out of this world (and she can afford the $160 per check for a benefit like that!) Which is it?

Billnewbie -- check nationwide data . You will find that states with strong unions have better performance on academic measures. One of the reasons I moved to WI.

Fedup: I called one of my friends to check my numbers; I did overestimate. The amount she is down per year is 8 grand. It is about 160 dollars per check for pension contribution and 180 dollars per check for insurance. Distribute that over 24 pay periods (24x340) is $8,160. I still consider that a significant amount to compensate for...even if she doesn't have to pay 6 or 7 hundred a year in union dues. She has been teaching for about 15 years and this has been a very, very significant cut for her family as she is the head of household. I am not trying to minimize anyone's loss of revenue in these past years (my own income has fluctuated wildly), but I will never agree that we should tarnish the idea of good faith bargaining, undervalue our payment to teachers, or believe that since we have personally had hard times we want as many people as possible to suffer like we have. I understand test scores are not as strong as they once were; however, WI (and Janesville) still rank extremely well compared to most other states- I believe we are still in the top 5, which is nothing to stick our noses up at.

billnewbie, while I agree with some of what you say, I disagree that the unions cause public education to fail. Privatizing education is only going to make things worse for children in poverty. Janesville has a huge number of students in poverty and what this school board and governor has done has truly hurt those students the most. Children from middle class families with two supportive parents will always have a good chance of success regardless. However, the measures taken these past few years are truly hurting those that have less. Privatization is not the answer. Test scores for private schools are not any better. And when it is, it is for those students that would score great at any type of school.

Union dues of $700 or so is less than most teachers pay out of their pocket to help with supplies for students that don't have any, other classroom supplies, etc. My sister spends way over the $300 or so that she can deduct in her taxes. I do her taxes and she has $600 to $1000 each year in things she provides for her students; pencils, paper, snacks, breakfast sometimes, kleenex, etc..

Gee, what could the school board offer Mr. Parr and his minions that would convince them to make these concessions? Maybe giving his union the power to veto personnel decisions? Naw, they already have that written into their contract coupled with their strong influence on the board. Maybe they'd take a raise equal to the amount they'd concede? But then, what would be the point to that? Perhaps Mr. Parr's union wants more control over day to day decisions? Again, their contract and influence already gives them that. No, they won't be making any concessions because they have nothing to gain and they don't think they need the PR that such a thing would give them.

As for the quality of public education being tied to the strength of public unions, I quite agree, in the opposite. When unions have no influence over school operations, when teachers are held accountable for their performance (unlike the way things are now), then the quality of education will improve remarkably. And then the the way to improve education even more will be to reduce and reign in the bureaucracy the the district administration has become. For decades, our public school systems have stopped having the education of their students as their primary function. Instead, public school systems have had as their primary function the interests of its employees with the resultant emphasis on ever higher spending and salaries and the bizarre idea that students do better when surrounded by new bricks and mortar. Until that changes, expect our public schools to deteriorate even more than they already have.

In addition, by not raising taxes more, the school board is costing the district more money in the future. They claim things are only going to be worse in the next two budgets, but then don't tax more so the state will give more to our district. This school board does not make any sense. We need some new faces and a new president. Some people that don't have their own personal agendas plahying out before what is right for students. The only reason Billy is supporting sports for phy. ed. credit is to save money by cutting a phy. ed. teacher or two.

Really School Board, Really? You raise the taxes by about $22, but then turn around and ask all three unions to give up concessions with nothing in return? Really? What a joke. My garbage bill went up more than my tax bill, but our school board is asking teachers to give up $3,000-$5,000 a year.

Eagle: thank you for your comments; I do understand your perspective. Fedup: not paying their union dues of (ballparking here) $600 a year will not touch what teachers in other districts have lost. I mentioned on a post some months ago that my friends who teach in Grafton area have lost nearly $10,000/year in takehome pay for insurance and penison contributions. In the Beloit area, I believe takehome pay went down about 5 or 6 grand a year. I am not suggesting that some things don't need to be fixed, but I still believe a good faith contract should remain in tact. The way the board keeps asking employees to open, despite the answer "no" reminds me of what my father warned me about: boys who won't take "no" for an answer=DANGER!

Teachers just a little concession as a showing of good faith. I do not want the clothes off your back or a big cut in pay for you just a liitle concession.

Wish people would be more honest. This is not about the kids it is about MONEY plain and simple.

I couldn't agree more donna!

A lot of the blame for what teachers put up with starts at home. There are a lot of absentee parents who fail to teach their kids manners and respect for others. I sometimes wonder why some people have kids. Yes, there are some lousy teachers but how can we expect the good teacher's to make a bratty rude kid into a ready-to-learn-I'm-all-ears kid? It starts at home.

I guess I cannot speak to that however those are not the arguments I have heard for being against kicking in for benefits, it has all come down to money, which does not guarantee good education. California has the highest paid teachers by far and some of the worst schools. I am all for people getting all they can but there are times when you have to tighten the belts, apparently Janesville has left theirs loose for too long. If there is a pile of money laying around I say use it for the remainder of the contract, I am just tired of hearing the over the top rhetoric and terms like slavery and oppressed, get a grip people.

Eagle -- glad you are happy. The demands placed on teachers today have changed the nature of public education. I worry about the future of our nation when public education has been destroyed as we know it. This push started more than a decade ago.

Skinny I would gladly take the teachers deal I am paying 26% of my income towards my benefits and make far less than 50k and that is with 2 college degrees and I am happier now than when I made twice that. Going through hell by losing everything tends to make you prioritize and you are pretty grateful for having what little you have. I don't wish what I went through on my worst enemy however the humility I gained from it could be good for some.

If teachers could make what I and other private sector workers make, I doubt there'd be as much issue about making contributions. My neighbor recently complained that he has to pay in a few hundred a month for his insurance plan as should teachers...the difference is this neighbor makes over 130,000 a year in salary alone. Average teacher salary alone = 50,000 a year. DUH. HUGE differences.

Greg -- so glad to know you will speculate on this. However will you be able to sell papers when the unions are destroyed and public education is reduced to it's lowest possible level. So glad my children are adults now. None of my seven grandchildren attend Janesville PSs. This community will one day look back on these days and posts and wonder how people were ever so mis- guided. Recall Walker & His minions. Restore WI values before she is destroyed.

Woe is a society that treats people as commodities.

What's the difference between a teacher & a private sector worker such as myself? In the private sector the thought of quid pro quo demands never enters our minds because we know we will be shown the door immediately. It's called welcome to the real world - be glad you have that little thing called a JOB! Make all the demands you want, refuse concessions who really cares? The fact remains that your contracts do expire & you won't be on the gravy train much longer either way. So eat up & enjoy while you can because the real world is coming your way like it or not.

I guess the school board could let them keep their jobs. I wonder if that would be a big enough incentive for Mr. Parr? Probably not, unless it was his job on the line...