It remains an unexamined irony that the over-focus on the horrible behavior of less than one percent of the population aggravates and extends the very horror of that behavior which is overwhelmingly not typical of the human species.

grandys--Yes, that and local gov'ts(law) just waving-on the (adult)lawbreakers.......they must just laugh at law abiding taxpaying citizens who pay their salaries.

sigma- good post..................exactly

Truth1 - everything you see in the news is relative. The teachers actions is pretty bad... skipping work to protest? Seriously...that is a pretty bad attitude, putting the education of the youth on hold to go complain. Preaching pro-union... in other words a pack or bound group is better at doing something... to the rebelious youth the equal thing to do is join/form a gang. Monkey see monkey do.

tj57 - I agree with you regarding your 11:27pm post. Never thought I'd agree with NVgrf!!! Well, there's a new day for everything.
.
I also believe there isn't the parenting that there used to be. My parents never had to hit me. All they had to do was look at me a certain way in public when I acted up and I knew I would get a good verbal "kick in the ---" when I got home. My parents were also not the type who said, "Oh, not my poor child. She wouldn't do anything like that". They were PARENTS! --And I'm glad of it!

Actually, the loud motorcycle subject is right-on topic....How many kids see/hear that BLATANT lawbreaking and think to themselves..."hey, adults can blantantly flout the law and get away with it, I will too"......Whats good for the goose.....

I am quite sure that some of the anti-teacher folks here would gladly toss bricks off of overpasses if teachers were marching below.

matthew516 - Lack of leadership you say? Look at the way the teachers act when they dont get their way.. they throw tantrums and protest against their employer, skip work...etc. So what message does this send to kids?.... simple.. Its ok to stand up to your supperiors and you dont have to take or do anything anyone says or gives you and if you dont like school dont go. If you dont like the rules...flip out, act crazy, protest and break them.

No one is blaming the cycle manufacturers because it is not they who make them loud.....And for the excuse that "loud" makes you noticed so you won't get hit/pulled out in front of......puhleeze..., thats the lamest reasoning there is....don't tell us loud cycles haven't been hit/pulled out in front of....I don't want that to happen when I drive my car either so I'll take ALL the muffling components off of it.....rriiight......Thats getting to be a REALLY old excuse, gotta come up with something new.

Ok a little off subject here, but to all of the motorcycle haters who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about because they have never bought a bike; when you purchase a NEW bike (yes even Harleys) they are the wimpiest sounding bikes that you can imagine. It really sounds like a Prius. The sound you hear is an individual choice which involes tuning and new pipes. After market parts is what you are hearing, each aftermarket brand has its own unique sound. The GOV has put such restrictions on motors that manufacturers have no choice in the matter. The companies are not to blame here it is the rider and the louder the better. At least if you do not see them you will hear them so WE do not get hit.

Is turnabout fairplay? Let's hope they don't start thrill killing each other and other innocents around them. Perhaps better birth control is the answer.

It's called a lack of leadership.......and it starts at home! Virtue and values have been kicked to the curb. ACCOUNTABILILTY is killing our culture.

And for people who somehow think loud motorcycles are "patriotic",.....well, thats about as dimwitted as it gets.
Most people don't know that decades ago, Harley Davidson advertized thier cycles as "The Silent One" because they were quieter than their competitors.....Now, there goes that "loud patriotism" out the door.

sigma- I 100% agree with you about the motorcycles.....they literally scream ..!!.ILLEGAL.!!.. with all that noise and literally upset THOUSANDS of taxpaying citizens.....letting them get away with that is the HEIGHT of hipocrisy on the part of local gov'ts........yet, some jurisdictions go after loud stereos(which I hate too)and do nothing about loud exhausts....bald-faced HIPOCRISY.....Like you say, its no wonder people develop bad attitudes.

Remember, adults need to respect the youth as equally as they expect respect. No one is better than anyone else because of age....which a lot of older people dont understand.... the days of leave it to beaver are long gone....get with the times. America... supposed to be equality.

I agree with the person who pointed out that the violence on tv, movies, video games, news, etc. is so commonplace that people have become numb to it. People seem to no longer value life in any form. The only thing more appalling than those kids' behavior and lack of respect for life is adults supporting it and making excuses for it. It's frightening.

I agree... its nothing new... and then again it will never be eliminated as long as the law and courts want money and the youth continue to get singled out.

I am nearly 40 years old and even back when the curcuit was downtown these things were going on with the police. I went through the Old Towne Mall parking lot at 10pm (just drove thru) and I got a parking ticket. I never stopped in the lot, because it was "closed" I got a ticket, BUT that does not excuse my behavior. I WAS IN THE WRONG!!!! The police had every right to do what they did. Back then, we at least had enough sense to understand consequences. The kids now look at the police as their enemy. I have a novel idea--if they did nothing wrong then they wouldn't have a problem with the police. I have 2 older teens and neither one has had one issue with the law. They are not angels by any means, but they do have respect for others and the law. It really comes down to things today are no different than those of the past, but childrens reactions are so much worse.

Bellagio_Bound - I hear what you are saying... blaming everyone but myself. Yes... being young you do that. That is what im saying. And the way people treat the young they create way too many situations for them to put blame on others. Im accountable for my own actions, but when I was young I was the target of discrimination....just because I was young. My car broke on Milton ave and I coasted into Big Lots. I got a ticket for trespassing instantly. If I had been an older person it would have been handled differently... I dont think i would have got cuffed and thrown in the back of a cop car for simply being in the wrong parking lot at the wrong time. Ive been pulled over for going to get groceries... because I was young and the cops thought i was a "cruiser". Why???? How would me blaming them be wrong? Should I blame myself for getting groceries on a saturday night at 8-9pm?? How can Harleys get away with aftermarket exhaust but any young person cruising milton ave with aftermarket exhaust, even pretty quiet... gets a ticket? My dad never got a ticket in his really loud muscle car...cops gave him thumbs up. Targeting the youth is all it is. Yes I think its BS....and im sure im not alone. That is how the youth get angry and retaliate...the cops used to drive us off Milton ave being jerks....we'd go destroy some stuff and have fun. I answered the question. That is what leads to "despicable behavior". I dont even drive on milton ave anymore.. those days are over... but the spirit still lives, there will always be teens, and there will always be adults not liking their being there. Respect others as you would like to be respected... even if you are a cop, parent, teacher...whatever. People are people and ive learned a lot about dealing with people, young and old.

I've been reading a lot lately about "family courts" forcing removal of good fathers from their children based on lies and laziness of court operatives...I have no first-hand experience with this, so I don't know exactly, but this would DEFINITELY play a BIG part if this is going on to any extent.

Parents have very little to do in their childrens lives these days.. Gone are the days of kids working for anything really at all.. Mommy and daddy buy them cell phones, cars, Ipods etc.. It boils down to how a kid has been raised. In my day you didnt dare mouth back to an adult let alone toss a boulder off a bridge. Kids today have no consequences or respect because parents are too damn lazy.

tj57...I certainly agree. I was just sharing my personal experience.

NV, Politicians in general are "do as I say, not as I do" regardless of party affiliation. In terms of political philosophy and child rearing? I've seen it both ways pretty equally. Kind of depends on parenting skill I guess.

I Never raised my kids to do illegal things and there was none done in my home. I did not teach them to deal drugs nor did I teach them to become involved with gangs and other illegal activities nor did I condone any of their behaviors that were unacceptable, That was their choice.I did everything I could to show them the right way in life and to teach them to show respect and consideration for others. The friends they chose and life style they chose was by them. I did what I could to filter the unhealthy choices to no avail. IMO I believe that peer pressure and the need to fit in outweighs the parents doing the right thing. I also see the system failing kids at risk because of the overload of troubled kids.The old saying it takes a village to raise a child IMO does not exist anymore. No parent wants to see their child in jail or prison and anyone that thinks this need to research their priorities and what they want for their children. So many families fall into the system and have no resources to get their kids help. The blame always seems to come back to the parents and most parents work and the kids are at school a majority of their waking hours. As a parent of troubled kids I can say I did my best and when you don't get the support of others involved it is very hard to get the child on the right path when you try and get others to see there are other ways to work with them other then incarceration (which gives them more kids of unhealthy lifestyles to befriend) or sweeping them under the carpet. Within the schools and community we see the at risk kids. Reach out before it is to late.Just my opinion.

This is truely despicable behavior but I don't think it's all that different than in the past. I knew kids who ran down racoons, caught frogs and put firecrackers inside them just to watch them explode. I also know of some who tossed objects of an overpass onto traffic below. This was in the the 1950-1960's. So what's different here?

Oh wait, that was me.

They didn't have 4K and had to swim nude.

No, rotary gardens was long after I was a hellian. I got to raise hell before cell phones...we could get away with a lot more. Packerfan - Im just answering the question based upon what I know. No one is who they once were...im 35 now. Im just saying when the youth dont get respect... they are not going to give respect. out of everyone I know.. Im the responsible one. I abide by the law... even though i dont agree with all of the laws.. My parents were more strict with my younger sibling, and that backfired. ran away, got mixed in with gangs, drugs, etc. Even though I had a more free reighn.. I was a rebelious youth but more responsible. You people are trying to analyze the upbringings of kids and thinking that has everything to do with their actions.....not in the least bit. A lot of times the more a parent tries the harder they fail... respect and space do more than restrictions and punishment. Most people will never understand and grow old and die still wondering what happened, what did they not do right,... its called personalities.. we all have one, we're all different, we all learn different, we act different, and the biggest problem we have.... we all ASSUME different. And a simple rule that pertains to a lot of things... Every action has a reaction. You punish a kid... the kid will react... Someone attacks me... I will attack back. Me as a 16yr old, a cop gives me a bogus ticket just because im a young punk... ya... im going to go do something destructive to pay back. Of course I dont do this now.. but I can garantee a lot of mischevious actions are a result of misconduct by a more superior power. Is it right to fine a kid for smoking? Sure the city gets money...thats all they care about is money. Without crime they'd have a lot less money. Its a cycle.....endless. We create bad kids and instigate them to do bad things so they get arrested and feed the system. Welcome to America.

McCain? How about those Kennedy's? They have their stuff together too.

I would never group good parenting into a liberal vs conservative comparison. Crappy parents are crappy parents.

tj57....Don't get used to agreeing with me. (Just funnin') In defense of liberals, however, and this is only a personal observation, I find that the children of my liberal friends have fared far better in life in terms of personal values than those of my conservative friends. I wish you could know my two "kids" and their awesome families. I always laughed when I heard John McCain talk of family values in light of his screwed up personal life. And then I would look at the Obamas.

the prisons are full of them. some of it is human nature but alot of it has to do with parents not teaching their kids to look out for the less fortunate and try and be nice even if it's harder.

i dont think "sigma 40" has grown up yet! Got Kids? I bet there just Angels?!?

So you vandalized Rotary Gardens Sigma?

Wouldn't surprise me a bit.

The level of narcissism in some of todays youth today is appalling. They are disconnected from the feelings of others almost completely.

The judges in both of these cases and others like it need to start making them pay for this behavior.

one thing that leads to bad behavior is the fact once they get to a certain age they start to realize that everything is regulated, monitored, illegal, banned, has age limits, and the availability of entertaining exciting things to do is extremely limited. They are at an age they want to to things adults do and are completely capable, but are held down and forced to be kids. Didnt have this problem long ago (100yrs ago) because kids were married and having families at 12 on up. Now they are considered kids till basically 21. I have created quite a lot of mischeif when i was in my teens...some things still bare a scar on the city. One big reason we did a lot of bad things is because the police in Janesville had no respect for anyone 16-18 driving at night. All we had was the circuit/milton ave to entertain us. Yet we were harrassed, mega ticketed, by the cops. I know my dad wouldnt have been treated the same way if he got pulled over in his loud muscle car as I did.....even if he made more noise. The youth are easy targets. What people dont realize is that bad kids are not born bad... we create them.. the authority of them do. Its an animal instinct in every livnig thing.... you mess with it and make it mad its going to either scurry away.... or try and mess up your world. usually with your friends its a lot more fun and entertaining to not run away. Where kids are restricted to exercize their capabilities... they will find other means to do so... usually something dumb and stupid. I wasnt the worst kid, but I was a bad instigator and my friends and I did a lot of crazy stuff. People probably read about us a time or two.. Bordom is the main reason. 99% of all things allowed to do are BORING.

@skinnypuppy...these are the kids that won't even show up on test day so you'll have to try another angle, poor teachers with horrible students just doesn't apply here!! These types of kids have always been around and will end up in prison or mental institutions where they belong eventually. The world is not a worse place, we are just more aware of the bad stuff going on now. Like the rest of the negatives, this kind of thing gets more media coverage now which encourages the next little demon seed to seek his/her own 15 min. of fame instead of staying under the radar. Warm fuzzies don't sell papers of advertising on the evening news!

SOME kids just come from a background where the parents are not there to give them a boost in the right direction, teach them wrong from right, or just to give them love. You will find a lot of these children come from such different backgrounds other than the norm. This is why the boys and girls clubs and other services are so important (along with after school programs) to TRY to curb this type of behavior. Parents are not necessarily to blame here (to some degree maybe), but the parents are trying to do the best in what must be a difficult situation already. Don't get me wrong here: Parents need to be parent and NOT friends to their kids. I am very strict when it comes to me kids, but I want to make sure that they are ready for the society that is about to consume them when they go off to college. Teaching them to stay away from the "bad" influences is key.

Children learn what they live.

I have never agreed with NVgrf on a single post. However, he or she is 100% correct in saying that our children are deeply ingrained with a sense of moral relativism. "If I can make myself feel OK about doing this, then it must be OK." Some things are just wrong or evil on the face of it. Our failure as a society was to shy away from calling despicable behavior what it is, a sign of poor character and shaming the offender. Instead we blame parents, teachers, rock music, video games, and "those other kids they hang with."

Parental example, it seems to me bears most of the blame for this kind of behavior. Many, maybe most parents (probably all at one point or another) behave as if they have as a favorite expression something like "do as I say, not as I do". Kids get the idea really quickly. It doesn't work to preach one way but live another. You kids will ignore your preaching. If you have little or no respect for the law or your neighbor, that's a behavior your kids will learn from you rather effortlessly. Setting ten good examples can be negated by just one poor example. Parenting is a demanding job. Lots of people aren't very good at it.

Is it normal to act irresponsibly and disrespectfully? I don't think I'd call it normal even if it is common. And I would agree that this phenomenon is nothing new. Overpasses in big cities all over the country have tall chain link fences built on them to prevent bricks, cinder blocks and what not from being thrown down into traffic by folks up on top.

Yes, kids do some pretty horrific things and yet many people somehow think it's a great idea to base someone's pay (teachers) based on the whims and thrills of kids like these on a test day.

I'll bite...
It's been my observation that, at least in part, despicable behavior is caused by re-directed anger.
You can't change your parents.
You can't change the bully.
You can't change anything except one thing.
You can change your attitude, and how you deal with situations you can't change.
From what I've read in the Gazette, Police Chief Moore, and the Janesville Police are trying to help kids change their attitude with their various programs.
Kudos!

Lack of appropriate, timely discipline, and a system that coddles kids into believing (rightfully so) that there will be no real and uncomfortable repercussions to their antisocial behavior.

What do you think they'll get...probation? See how that works for them under Islamic Sharia law (they'd likely get the brick back at them, in spades!). In primal societies they'd simply be banished, or killed, if they didn't fit in a be productive. Here, today, in the US of A...justice is a joke!

There is nothing wrong with them.
They are acting like normal human beings.
Look at the past and look at the world around us.
Thank God we aspire to act better, but do not be surprised by this behavior.

I'm afraid that it highlights a basic lack of moral character in our society. As one who is proud to be called a liberal, I however am quite conservative regarding my belief that moral relativism has no place in a civilized society. There are things that are simply WRONG. Who is to blame? That's the $64,000.00 Question. I would start with parental teachings and the entertainment media, with a focus on video gaming.