Irreplaceable replacements
If a band changes its members, when does it cease to be the band it started as and continue in name only?
When David Lee Roth left Van Halen in 1985, the band continued under a new guise with Sammy Hagar as the lead singer. After the Van Halen/Hagar relationship soured in the mid-1990s, things got weird.
The band brought Roth back into the fold in 1996 to record some new tunes for a greatest hits album. Following an appearance at MTV’s Video Music Awards, a war of words was waged between the Van Halen brothers and Roth, and the reunion ended.
Gary Cherone, the lead singer for Extreme, was recruited and the band released one (pretty awful) album in 1998 and toured the world. By the end of 1999, Cherone had left the band.
In 2003, Van Halen tried to reignite its late 80s flame by once again touring with Hagar and releasing some new material on a second greatest hits album. By the time the tour ended, the relationship between Hagar and the Van Halen brothers had again soured and Hagar went back to his solo career.
The band reunited with Roth in 2007 (and without original bassist Michael Anthony) and toured extensively. Following the tour, the band recorded a new album, which was released in 2012, and is scheduled to tour again next year.
Whew. Did you get all that?
The Van Halen example is one of the most exhaustive examples of a band going through numerous lineup changes, though keeping the core of the band (mostly) unchanged. For some bands, the changeover is almost seamless, but for others it’s a career killer.
What got me thinking about this topic is the fact that The Smashing Pumpkins have released a new album and are touring. However, I don’t consider them to be the same Smashing Pumpkins I used to listen to.
With lead singer Billy Corgan being the only original member in this new version of the band, it seems like kind of a lie. And though this isn’t anything new when it comes to bands, it still bugs me. Here are a few other examples:
-- Guns N’ Roses disappeared from the rock scene in 1994 after becoming one of the most popular rock bands of the late 80s/early 90s. When the band reappeared with a new album in 2008, lead singer Axl Rose was the only original member in the group.
-- Pink Floyd’s vocalist/bassist Roger Waters left the band in 1985, following successes of “Dark Side of the Moon” and “The Wall.” The three remaining members continued under the Pink Floyd name and released two successful albums. The band reunited with Waters in 2005 for a set during the Live 8 concert in London.
-- It seemed as though Queen had learned that lead singer Freddie Mercury is irreplaceable, and to record or tour with anybody else in his place would be a mistake. Apparently not, since they recruited former Bad Company singer Paul Rodgers in 2004 and toured for a few years.
-- Creedence Clearwater Revival broke up in 1972, and John Fogerty embarked on a solo career. In 1995, the two remaining members formed Creedence Clearwater Revisited and composed “cover versions” of their original songs.
-- The Doors were dormant for years, until they performed on VH1's Storytellers in 2000 with numerous guest vocalists. In 2002, two of the original members were forced to re-name themselves The Doors of the 21st Century when they recruited ex-Cult singer Ian Astbury for a tour.
I won’t get into bands that haven’t released new material in many years but still tour every summer, like REO Speedwagon, Kansas, Steve Miller Band, or Journey. There’s no telling how many lineup changes those bands have gone through since their heyday. It’s doubtful that anyone really notices.
There’s also the band Kiss, who is on a whole other level when it comes to lineup changes. They have probably had more members come and go than any other band in the history of the world.
Bands like Led Zeppelin had the right idea to just hang it up, as they did after drummer John Bonham died in 1980. Except for a somewhat embarrassing set at 1985’s Live Aid concert with Phil Collins filling in on drums, the band has not recorded or toured.
Addendum
It has come to my attention that this blog entry has made it's way into cyberspace in a much bigger way that I was expecting. This is by no means meant to be an exhaustive list of examples of bands that have gone through lineup changes. It was written to garner discussion, as all of our blog entries on Gazettextra aim to do.
While I may have misspoken when I said Van Halen is "the most exhaustive example," I used them (as well as the other bands I mention) because I am most familiar with them and I believe VH's lineup changes were some of the most publicized.
In any case, if you're unhappy with some of the examples I used or believe I had some omissions, so be it. I have responded to quite a few emails regarding this, so I figured I would just try and nip it in the bud by adding a bit of an explanation.
And, yes, Led Zeppelin did get back together with Bonham's son Jason for a one-off tribute show for Atlantic Records founder Ahmet Ertegun. However, I was looking at bands that continued on recording and touring after a lineup change. I didn't mention the Page & Plant album and subsequent tours in the 1990s since it wasn't actually Led Zeppelin. I've received quite a few emails regarding that. Hopefully this clears a bit of it up.
Sep 8, 2012 at 9:41 p.m.
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One show at the o2 isn't a tour, people! Great article.
Sep 8, 2012 at 4:42 p.m.
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OK......first of all I have to completely agree with @kelseyc94 when I ask if you did ANY research for this article AT ALL!
Your last statement about Led Zeppelin is 100% inaccurate. Zeppelin got together in the 90's to play an Atlantic Records anniversary show for various dignitaries of the label. Then, more famously the band reunited for one last hurrah on 12/10/2007 and played an entire show at London's O2 arena with John Bonham's son, Jason filling in on the drums. The show was a major success and billion dollar offers for a new world tour were thrown at the band. John Paul Jones and Jimmy Page were interested in touring but Robert Plant threw in the towel. Plant decided to tour with Alison Krauss supporting their new album instead. Page and Jones didn't want to wait around for Plant to change his mind so they actually searched for a "name" singer to take his place. So even the mighty Led Zeppelin didn't exactly hang it up at the end of their era.
Sep 7, 2012 at 3:39 p.m.
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You know I don't like Kiss? Wow, I don't even know you and I doubt you have any idea what my likes and dislikes are.
Kiss may have had only 10 different members since their first incarnation as Rainbow in 1970, but how many times did those members come and go? More than 10 times, I assure you. That was the point I was trying to make.
I used the example bands that I knew of off the top of my head. The fact that I didn't include a certain band doesn't mean anything. It was meant to generate a discussion on music, not who's right or wrong.
Thanks for reading!
Sep 7, 2012 at 2:38 p.m.
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Dave, did you think about doing some research for your article? I know you don't like Kiss, but you could have actually looked it up and found that Kiss has had 10 members in their 40 years. Red Hot Chili Peppers have had more. So has Black Sabbath. Heck, Sabbath has had 9 lead singers. Be a professional and do your research before writing.
Sep 6, 2012 at 7:53 p.m.
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This is an excellent article, and one which I have thought about for at least 40 years. I think it depends somewhat on the group. For instance, how could you replace someone in a group like Peter, Paul, and Mary without changing it's charactor. In other groups who are not so identified with names, it has worked out OK if they stick to the style and material of the original group. The ones I don't like is when they don't even look or sound at all like the original group. When this happens and you go to a concert, you leave with the feeling that you have been cheated. So, sometimes, in certain situations it works, others, no, it does not work.
Sep 6, 2012 at 11:09 a.m.
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BTW dave, great topic.
Sep 6, 2012 at 11:08 a.m.
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You would be hard pressed to find many bands who didn't experience lineup changes. is it still "the band" can only be answered in the mind of an individual, as opinions will vary. My take is this....to remain "the band" they must SERIOUSLY chart some new material. Guest singers covering previously released tunes equals money whores. They must also tour. Go out and prove the new lineup to fans old and new. These two things, along with lasting success, make "the band". Axl Rose can call himself Guns and Roses all he wants, but he ain't foolin nobody.
Sep 6, 2012 at 10:10 a.m.
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My bad, the planned "Best of 1978-1984" album that was to coincide with a reunion tour with Roth was canned.
Thanks for pointing that out, Snoggins34
I agree that yet another best-of compilation would have been completely unnecessary.
Sep 6, 2012 at 9:57 a.m.
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Not to be "that guy", but since this is a legitamite newspaper, I figured I'd point out an error in your VH history.
From the article:
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"The band reunited with Roth in 2007 (and without original bassist Michael Anthony), released yet another greatest hits album and toured extensively"
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This part is not correct - there was no 3rd greatest hits release post-2007 when Dave re-joined. They toured in '07 and '08, but did not release any product. The only product the current lineup has released was their new album earlier this year.
The 2nd GH package was bad enough. A 3rd one might have sent the fanbase over a cliff... :)
Sep 5, 2012 at 11:26 p.m.
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Another good example is the Allman Brothers Band. 3 of the original 6 members, featuring Gregg Allman, are still in the band, which began in 1969. They still put out an occasional well-received album and tour quite a bit. Guitar replacements Warren Haynes & Derek Trucks (both included in Rolling Stone's top 100 guitarists) capably fill the shoes of departed (also top 100 RS pickers) Duane Allman & Dickie Betts. To see them live is a "true Allman experience". An example of carrying on in the mold of the original...
Sep 5, 2012 at 9:34 p.m.
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Iron Maiden is another one that had many line up changes as well.
Sep 5, 2012 at 8:34 p.m.
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Famous last words:
"You want fries with that?" - Pete Best
Sep 5, 2012 at 6:40 p.m.
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A couple of people I know brought up Black Sabbath, Rainbow and Thin Lizzy as good examples of bands that went through numerous lineup changes with varying results.
I just did ones off the top of my head, but those three are excellent examples of ever-changing lineups in bands.
Sep 5, 2012 at 6:03 p.m.
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Like the guy who tried to sell Elvis' guitar. Had the neck replaced right after the King died. Then had to replace the body last year. But yep, that's Elvis' guitar.
Sep 5, 2012 at 4:52 p.m.
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How did Menudo run out of Puerto Rican kids?
Sep 5, 2012 at 4:25 p.m.
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Dude just blogged on your blog
Sep 5, 2012 at 4:19 p.m.
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What you are really talking about here Dave is a band's brand. The Who lumber on with Roger Daltrey and Pete Townshend, but since the deaths of Keith Moon and John Entwistle, it cannot be the same band many of us love. Rock music has trouble with this, although rock's history is replete with massively talented musicians being key members of multiple bands. (Consider Eric Clapton, Neil Young, Steve Winwood, Dave Grohl and Jack White among many others.) In my opinion, it's the musicianship and talent that counts.
Over in jazz, Miles Davis literally had hundreds of different bands and configurations over the years. Guys came in, did an appreticeship with Miles and then formed their own band. Those changes actually helped the Miles brand survive by constantly taking a new course as it adapted to new talent.
This year, Return To Forever, one of the great fusion bands of the 1970s and 80s, reformed. Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke and Lenny White all returned. Unfortunately, Al DiMeola did not. Was it the old RTF? Well, they certainly missed Al D., but with three musicians as good as that, how wrong could it go?
Hopefully a musician has the wisdom to see when one musical entity has run its course, and move on to the next big thing.
shawn sensiba
Sep 5, 2012 at 2:49 p.m.
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Lineup changes can get messy from a legal perspective, too.
Queensryche recently sacked lead vocalist Geoff Tate, but now the two sides are in a tug of war over the name of the band.
In the last band I was in we had a band agreement that we all signed. Among the items was a clause that said we had to have at least three of the four members in the group to use the name of the band. It was designed to prevent multiple entities from using the same name and touring the world. Turns out, we couldn't even get one world tour out of the deal.
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