NOW comes the word, "FREEZE"! It shouts from MARSHFIELD, WISCONSIN! "Marshfield school administrators' salaries frozen" - Marshfield News Herald - August 14, 2009 - IF you want to read the article, the URL is: http://www.marshfieldnewsherald.com/arti....

LISTENING for the word, "FREEZE" from a local school district in Rock County, especially MILTON!

Here we go... Mr. E.

Appreciative comments:
Most pricipals are supportive of staff.
Most teachers have good moral and are satisfied with benefits/salary package.
Most teachers enjoy their work.
The list goes on. The point I am trying to make is that this district has money and a successful insurance program that works well for the district fiscally and for the JEA yet they are always trying to cut pay, benefits, ect with little to no justification except that everyone else is doing it. You are a prime example with your personal experiances with your employees. Since you have to trim so should everyone else. The taxpayers money in the fund 10 should now be tapped to cover a rough economy when the taxpayers are struggling. If it isn't to be used now then when will it? This district is making money hand over fist on insurance claims or lack there of and still wants to make teachers pay more. IF you start taking away benefits from teachers there will be no more teachers. Not just here but in general. That is one of the perks of teaching, benefits and working with students. Everyone knows the pay isn't great and teachers have given back for years when your employees were getting raises that far outmatched those of the 2 or 3 percent that teachers were recieving. Let me rephrase that, maybe not your employees since they are so willing to give back to you. I am sure they would have taken "deeper cuts" or be kicked down the road.
Also in one of your comments you said "what else can we provide for you?" Well you can start by working with teachers to settle simple fixes such that were mentioned by Samadams that would cost the district nothing but boost the morale that you are so disrespectfully destroying within this district.

realist: I'm sorry, but when a teacher said on this blog that working conditions "suck" I assumed it to mean that they were in fact "unappreciative". If I jumped to conclusions, forgive me. Along that note, perhaps you can give some feedback on some of the things that teachers are appreciative of. It might put things in a whole new light!

I'll even start the ball rolling. I am appreciative of my kids orchestra teacher (Erin Loescher) who has done a tremendous job in just a short time at Parker. I think that the Lehmann's (both husband and wife) exude great professionalism. I marvel how Nrs. Fischer still has such contagious enthusiasm towards her work after these many years. I like how some in the English Dept. demand excellence. There are many others but word limits force me to stick to a few examples.

Finally, the money that the district has is the taxpayers. The situation of the taxpayer and their ability to pay has to be considered.

jqpublic: Actually my staff does give honest feedback. Some would have even taken deeper cuts.

Let's hear some appreciative comments!
Bill Sodemann

JohnDoe, who are the "likes" of people like
Tom Wolfe? First of all, with the exception of Dave Parr and Bill Sodemann I am the only other party willing to identify him or herself. Secondly, in MY opinion the issues that Bill and Dave are discussing in this forum are items that have been identified as being part of negotiations between the JEA and School District. Those negotiations are ongoing and have been closed(either side can request negotiations are closed and the other side must comply) So given that I am simply questioning the appropriateness of these two parties taking part while the negotiating teams are working on the contract.

Tom Wolfe

Bill, It is almost like you despise what teachers have for compensation. Is that why you are publicly ridiculing them for having sick days, holiday breaks etc. It is pretty clear that you want to stick it to the JEA with some of your comments. All the JEA wants is similiar compensation to surrounding districts. Nothing more and nothing less. As for your employees feeling appreciated, Do you really believe they would actually tell their boss how they really feel?

Bill,
This is out of your blog
"Should we lengthen the Thanskgiving, Christmas & Easter Breaks? Is the temperature too hot or too cold?" What does this have to do with our current contract? You also said, "I did not negotiate anything, I am mearly pointing out facts about the existing contract and working conditions" You are making teachers out to be whiners and unappreciative. You can try to defend your comments anyway you want but go back and reread what you wrote it was unproffesional. Call me a Liar or not it is obvious how you feel towards teachers.
"My employees took actual cuts in both pay and benefits but everyone one of them knows that I very much appreciate them - feel free to ask them." Wouldn't it be nice if the teachers felt the same way? I wonder why they don't? Please refer to your previous post on this page.
Also if your employees knew that you made money this year and are expected to make money next year would they still feel the same about taking a pay and benefit cut? Or if you had more money saved than almost any other business of similar size in the state and still cut their pay and benefits would they still feel this way?
Nothing against you Bill, I do appreciate your service to the community but I really question your tactics.

When teachers make comments on this blog saying things like "working conditions suck", I am compelled to point out how ludicrous that statement is. I did not negotiate anything, I am mearly pointing out facts about the existing contract and working conditions.

Acknowledging the great benefits that teachers have is not "bashing". Every career has it's good points and bad points. All compensation needs to be considered - not just salaries.

Realist: You are a LIAR when you say that I dislike the teachers in this district. There are many that I have gotten to know that are wonderful and unfortunately a few who I could do without. Don't equate wanting to be fiscally responsible with not appreciating teachers. My employees took actual cuts in both pay and benefits but everyone one of them knows that I very much appreciate them - feel free to ask them.

Samueladams: As to the Prof. Dev. survey results. I never said that they are being kept secret - I just said that I have not read the details as of yet. As far as I know they are available to anyone who wants to see them.

Finally, any decision that we make about our children will be based upon what is best for them - not on what someone else may think about it.

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

John,
It is a prime example of how much he dislikes the teachers in this district. Which is why I have to ask what the motives are behind the teacher bashing on this site. And again while you may appreciate his spouting off on here how does that help the JEA or the board reach an agreement any sooner? Do you know why other area districts have settled contracts already? Because the two sides negotiate with each other and don't bash it out in the paper trying to get the public on one side.

And again realist....what does his daughter's education venue have to do with his ability to represent the taxpayers who elected him?

And Mr. Sodeman's view's here may not necessarily represent the view of the board as a whole. But, nonetheless, I would like to hear them, and that wouldn't always be possible in the constrained arena of a bargaining session.

No...I'll accept the dialogue here. It's more forthright than in a semi-formal forum such as a bargaining session.

Even if the negotiating sessions were "open"...there is no avenue for public discourse as there is here.

This forum can serve as an important supplement...not a replacement to negotiations....from a taxpayers point of view.

Your right it is not negotiating it is posturing as Mr. Wolfe said. If he wanted to posture or show his point of view or sway the public to his side, whatever you may call it, he should have agreed to open negotiation meetings so everyone could see what is going on with a lot less speculation.

And, realist...how does it matter where his daughter attends school....as to his ability to represent the taxpayers that elected him?

For your information...he readily volunteered in previous elections that some of his children were home schooled at that time. It didn't matter to the voters...we elected him because of his honesty and integrity...as well as his willingness to go to bat for the taxpayer.

Answering questions and presenting his views is NOT negotiating...there is a BIG difference.

I also welcome the views of JEA representatives such as Dr. Parr.

Tom Wolfe's view of the dialogue in this forum is inhibiting to a fault....in my opinion.

Johndoe,
You are missing the point of the comments. He and the rest of the school board decided that the meeting be held behind closed doors not open to the public but then discusses them on a blog? Agree with him if you want that is not the issue.

As a taxpayer...I commend commissioner Sodeman for his participation and straightforward comments in this forum.

Please don't let the likes of Tom Wolfe dissuade you from continued participation.

Contrary to tomwolfe53's line of thinking...Mr. Sodeman brings things to a level and an arena the taxpayer can relate to, and that is one reason we have re-elected him.

JEA may not want to hear this...but he does speak for the majority of SDOJ taxpayers. While all taxpayers may not agree with all of his views, we do appreciate his exploring all of the options and asking the tough questions.

So..while realist might be ashamed to have Mr. Sodeman represent HIM...I am glad Mr. Sodeman represents ME.

Sodeman,
I can't believe what I have just read. You are a school board member that is supposed to be working "with" teachers and administrators to make the JSD a better place for our students. The bashing session you just put on this screen is a disgrace to the position that you hold. Your comments are a mockery of the professional teachers that work in this district. I am ashamed to have you as a representative of this school district. Real professional approach as a school board member discussing these issues on a blog in the middle of negotiations that you and the rest of the board wanted "closed" from the public.

But a whole lot more entertaining...which is worth more than what we usually get.

To Commissioner Sodemann and JEA President Parr. It appears that this blog is being used as posturing (somewhat) for negotiations. I believe both the district and the JEA have negotiating teams and that is where the negotiations should take place, not in this forum. In fact doing so in this forum could prove to be counterproductive.

Tom Wolfe

There was a professional development session titled "I-tunes" or something similar. I did not take that as a session, but I pointed it out to show the public that these hours are not really professional development they simply justify ESC jobs. Phy Ed teachers have complained they have no sessions that apply to them, yet they can take a session on things that they will never use in the gym. I would rather develop new curriculum than sit in a session on how to use word perfect which I already am more than proficient at.
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Why haven't you or better yet teachers seen the results of the PD survey? Isn't that Studer thing you keep promoting all about transparency?
I'm still waiting for things from the districts initial proposal that would make my job better, or my classroom better for my students. Do you have any?

Mr. Sodemann, the "straw man" rebuttal could easily said of your response, since you did not address the clearly outlined issues placed foward by SamAdams. You simply took two issues, comparing one to a war zone and mocking the other. We have never compared our working conditions to a war zone, we would however wish to improve our teaching environment. Your other issue with teaching minutes misses the point, no where in our proposal do we ask for less teaching minutes. The four issues outlined need to be addressed. Where ever the school board would like to meet and resolve them would be good with us.
Dr. David Parr, JEA President

Dear Dr. Parr:
Quit using a "straw man" argument to deflect the attention away from the issue. I never said that teaching minutes were all that were in a work day. I was responding to the comments made that working conditions "suck". He (samueladams) used the phrase "teaching minutes" so I was quantifying what the teaching minutes actually now were. It just so happens that I have great knowledge about the life of a teacher as my mother, sister, 2 brothers, uncle, 3 cousins, a niece and a nephew either are or have been teachers.

samueladams: Thanks for backing down on the "sucks" comment. It takes courage to admit when you are wrong and then correct it rather than dismissing it and changing the subject. I respect you for that.

I'l try to respond to some of your points.
As to the insurance fund, first of all we would not even be having this discussion if we were not self insured. If claims were down, whatever insurance company we used would keep our money as profits and say thank you. Second, I have been trying to address the issue with my HRA proposal (which you have read) and JEA decided not to pursue in the last negotiations. Third, we (the district) have set aside a pool of money from the insurance surplus of the past few years to be available for years with higher claims. I believe that 2.4 million was the amount that is in our reserve as part of the fund balance.

As to the PD. I am not fully aware of all of the issues that you referred to. Are you saying that the district wanted to credit someone with PD hours by learning how to run their IPOD or is that what a teacher claimed was their PD? I would agree that claiming PD or using a IPOD is a fraud!

I have not read all of the results of the survey given to teachers about the PD plan this past year but I understand that the results were positive (in spite of some encouragement by JEA officials to not respond in a positive way).

I have a couple of final suggestions. I like the "runnoft" idea of the beer summit. Maybe we agree on more than you think. Secondly, I think it would be helpful if everyone started focusing on the good things. Make a list of all of the benefits and positive things that you receive by being a teacher. I bet your list would include things like: Great benefits, early retirement, summers and most importantly - being able to make a difference in the life and success of a student.

If you are planning on a beer summit, I only drink 1 and it has to be cold!

Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

samueladams1775
"Again it MUST be in a separate account because WE DON'T TRUST YOU WITH OUR MONEY!"
Why doesn't your union take over the insurance?

Rocksolid,
We already have the highest number of prof. dev. hours in the Big 8 and you want to add more. I would rather spend time developing curriculum instead of putting in hours to fullfill the ESC's time requirement. What is the point of PD hours? It sure is NOT professional development, how is spending 2 hours learning how to program my I-pod going to help students? The main purpose of PD hours seams to be to justify ESC jobs.
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I was wrong to use the word "suck". But given the option of signing a contract that makes my working coditions WORSE and get a freeze and not signing a new contract, I'd be insne to sign. The district proposal does not makes my job better, OR MY STUDENTS life better. All it does is encourage good teachers to go to Beloit Turner, or Edgerton, or Parkview. In this tough time we need to attract good teachers not drive them away.
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What part of YOUR proposal is attractive to teachers?
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Like I said do the following and I'll personally happily take a FREEZE eventhough the area average is a 3.9% increase on signed contracts.
1. Stop taking money from the insurance and keeping it for your pet projects, or padding the roughly 30 million dollar fund 10 balance
(note: you didn't disagree when Mr. Reif said on a previous post that you took $3 million from the fund at the start of the year creating a deficite.) Again it MUST be in a separate account because WE DON'T TRUST YOU WITH OUR MONEY!
2. The minute issue according to the JEA team is just putting current practice of minutes taught into the contract so the ESC that I don't trust can't change them at a whim.
3. I wantequal playing field with all the other teachers in the state and be held to the DPI standard not the ever changing standards of the ESC when it comes to classes (note: I asked for a class to count and was turned down 6 months after a teacher in the same subject was approved for the SAME class the reason different HR directors so put it in the contract)
4. Give me credit for developing lessons and improving myself as a teacher (ex: I am currently reading 2 books on teaching techniques) instead of only counting what justifies ESC positions when it comes to PD hours.
5. Get rid of the laughable "Defective Teaching" all new teachers need to take that is a repeat of college and a waste of my tax dollars.
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Again I over worded the other one and I'm sorry, but there is NOTHING in your proposal supplied to me last May that I would vote for. Working condition get WORSE not better in your contract proposal and we need good teachers. I like Janesville, but see us driving many of the good teachers away. My building has lost 4 to area schools in the last few years, and we've lost what 4 or 5 principals to area schools just this year. Our kids deserve the BEST.

Bill, if that were all to the work day there would be no problem. So if you are proposing that your version of our workday be in the contract and take out the other job duties, this contract would be done very quickly. It is however very dissapointing that a school board member does not have a solid grasp on what a teacher in our school district does. Dr. David Parr JEA President

Comparing teachers to other state employees is not apples to oranges because other state employees have had better pay and benefits for a long time. Teachers' wages have fallen relative to inflation for about 20 years. My husband taught in a rural school district where we were significantly poorer than, and laughed at, by kids of factory employees. Good thing he spent all that time and money getting a college education -- not. Not if you're going to use it teaching, that is. Plus teachers do not get to leave their work at work. They have plenty of evening, early morning and other work that cuts into their personal time (unlike factory employees) but that is not included in the hourly rate times hours the district uses to compute salaries -- or at least it wasn't in my husband's district. (And I am the daughterof a machinist so I am familiar with the issues faced by blue collar workers too -- when I grew up we didn't have health insurance for some time during the recession.) Finally, teachers are treated as little more than glorified babysitters by parents and administrators, all of whom are more interested in making sure that parents don't complain about any discipline meted out to their kids than in making sure the kids actually behave and try to learn. So go ahead with the pay freeze -- you will get the type of people in the job and the education you and your kids deserve.

Badgerlvr: I agree. We all made choices. I just want to know how the working conditions "suck". Those are samueladams words, not mine. Perhaps you can help explain how horrible the conditions are. Coming from a family of teachers, I do admire them. They however, consider the benefits and working conditions a tremendous positive, not a negative.

Sincerley,
Bill Sodemann

Gee Rocksolid, if you're so envious of teachers working conditions, why didn't you become one? Everyone in this society makes choices. Those who teach (not me) chose to become a teacher. I admire their ability to spend long hours grading papers, instructing students, and dealing with people who continually degrade them for the benefits they have. Kind of sounds like you Mr. Sodeman.

samueladams: Please expand on how bad your working conditions are. So far, what I have heard is that you want less hours of professional development - not exactly like being on the front line in Afghanistan!

You also mentioned "teaching minutes".
HS teachers currently teach 5 - 50 minute classes per day and one semester every two years have an additional 50 minute non- teaching assignment. Now I realize that this is even more than what our university professors teach but did you want fewer minutes? Are the summers not long enough? Should we lengthen the Thanskgiving, Christmas & Easter Breaks? Is the temperature too hot or too cold? Should we lower the age that you can retire with full benefits from 57 to 40? Are the 10 personal sick days, 4 family sick days and 2 personal days (16 total for a 190 day work year) not enough? Is having a guaranteed lifetime retirement, that does not get destroyed by the market conditions, not good enough?

You said your working conditons "suck". I may be wrong on this, but I bet that there may be some folks out there (including me) that wouldn't mind such horrible working conditions.

What else can we provide for you?

Sincerely,

Bill Sodemann

Runnoft - Fuunnyy!

RichE95
Did you read my post? I give the district a way that I as a teacher would happily vote for a ZERO percent raise. Isn't that what you want? I choose not to take a contract that gives me worse working conditions and no raise. I would rather work under the current contract than do that. As the JEA team has shown, we are losing good teachers to neighboring districts, why would I vote for a contract that gives me no money and worse conditions.

Runoft, there is a tradition in this district that if you rock the boat you find yourself transfered to another school. So I'll remain anonymous.

John, While you were a teacher, would you have had the same opinion as you do now?

It would appear that samueladams1775 is from the Mike Sheridan school. Perhaps he wants to put a "hurt" on the Janesville School District like Sheridan threatened to do to Woodman's. If Janesville sucks Mr Adams - just go elsewhere! It is time that teachers decide if they want to be professionals or simply emulate the UAW whose members kept on telling how bad GM was until the jobs were gone. Be careful with media statements referring to 10 or 20 % tax increases. The headlines of these articles can be misleading since they really are about the tax rate relative to a lowered valuation of a property. We spend to much time lamenting assessments. The real questions on the property tax are 1. Is my property valued fairly realative to my neighbors or other similar properties? and 2. How much does government propose to spend? Also be careful when those in government talk about "cuts". It is not the same as in real life situation such as your family. Everyone says the State of Wisconsin scrimped, saved, and cut with this budget. Fact is - the budget is about 5% larger than the last one. Real freezes and cuts should be the order of the day in the public as well as the private sector. Start with the legislature - let it once again become a short term activity for concerned citizens - not the life's work of professional politicians.

jqpublic--
It's not OK for ANY school district in the state to give their teachers raises right now. Not when state employees aren't getting raises -- and have only gotten one 2% raise in the last three years. It's time for the public school teachers to do without as well.

Why is it ok for other districts to receive raises but it is not ok for the JSD? Janesville is one of the weathliest districts in the state. Look at the fund 10 balance. I am really interested in some type of discussion on this question?

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/may...

http://www.gazettextra.com/weblogs/lates...

I'm with you mark twain. The teachers union is just as greedy and corrupt as the uaw and look where they are now.

It's like your classroom. You did all the talking and nobody listened.

Mr. E - you are writing your commentary while collecting both WRS and SDJ teacher benefits. You chose to retire - a bonus to the students and staff of the SDJ - and now have the time to criticize the next generation of teachers. I bet if you had your way, female teachers would be forced to resign when they are pregnant. GET OUT OF THE SCHOOLHOUSE and our politics as you are NO FRIEND to current educators!

Mr. E, part of the problem that districts face, and one of my chief frustrations as a former school board member is the illogical process to the staffing and budgeting calendar school districts face. The primary cost(85-90%) is labor and most districts have to provide lay-off notices by May 1. The budget cycle ends(or starts) on July 1. A district's revenue is primarily a function of student count which takes place on the third Friday of September. Given all of this add the fact of reduced state aid after all staff is in place and before you even know your primary revenue source. If you read Milton and Turner's dilemna it is the result of state aid reduction after all staffing plans have been in place. I suppose you could just cut all the none represented staff but they do serve a purpose in all school districts. I know this doesn't address your issue of "freeze" but wanted to give this perspective as a former board member/president.

It is a conundrum to say the least.

Yours, Former President Wolfe

As a JEA member I am not all about the money, our team made many proposals that focused on working conditions. I PERSONALLY could handle a zero percent raise, IF the working conditions we asked for were granted. Instead the district asked us not only to freeze our salary but work extra unpaid hours, restrict our own attendance of our own childrens' performances (done at ZERO cost to the district), continue to burden new teachers with tons of hours of "extra" training that is just a repeat of what they learned in college. This program is jokingly know as "defective teaching" and has had ZERO impact on students education, all it does in my opinion is justify administrative jobs, and cost taxpayers tens of thousands of dollars.

If the district, would:
1. Put insurance money in a separate account and stop shifting it from teacher to their own pet projects
2. cut professional development hours to the norm of districts in the area
3. allow us to take classes (that we have to pay for) under DPI restrictions instead of their harder restrictions again justifying in their eyes more administrative work
4. made our teaching minutes language similar to other districts

I PERSONALLY would vote for a zero percent raise. As I read and listened to the JEA team these are the main points I got. I know they didn't ask about money yet, I think to see what of these things we got.

I personally was insulted by the districts offer. Does the board have any idea how low morale is in this district?

Mr. E. is it wrong to ask for money if your working conditions suck. If you are treated like a servent by a central office that wants all the power. If I don't have good working conditions, I want the roughly 4% raises that Parkview, Edgerton and Beloit Turner all got.

I'm tired of losing good young teachers to neighboring districts, and the taxpayers should be too. We need to either improve the work conditions or the compensation, the board is blind and does not see that.

Until they wake up we will continue to loose good people. When is the Gazette going to do an indepth story on all the principals (who have a much easier time moving districts than teachers) and administrator who are jumping ship? Maybe your next blog should be about that!!!! Not only are we losing administrators, but we have the highest teacher turnover in THE STATE for districts our size!!!

Until I see blogs about that Mr. E. I am going to continue to discount your words because you obviously don't want to fix education in Janesville you just want to generate posts on this forum. Which is your job so I understand your reasons, but are you serious about fixing education?

Nobody talks about the annual increases in retirement benefits that no one else gets outside of government and that serve as absolutely no incentive to younger teachers (which we don't need anyway as there are scores of applicants for each teaching job in WI).

Mr. Eyster - Are you for cutting teacher retiree income and benefits as well then? Yourself included at this time? When the economy picks up sometime in the future, your retiree pension/benefits could then be reinstated just as I am sure the public will then support a nice increase in teacher salaries as well (just a touch of sarcasm there).

gremmisr-- Perhaps it needs to be pointed out that among those whose pay has been frozen for two years are the faculty and teaching staff of the university system. These are people, myself included, whose jobs REQUIRE terminal degrees (or in some cases masters). What makes public school teachers so different that they believe they should be getting raises when other educators in the state (who have higher education demands placed upon them and are evaluated every year) have actually LOST pay? Do you think the professors wanted their pay cut? We have been told that we need to be cooperative until the economy picks up? Why do you believe public school teachers should not pitch in and help like the rest of us?

The thrust of John's comment makes financial sense, and he should be commended for taking on one of his party's sacred cows-- WEAC. However, a freeze simply isn't enough. CUTS-- should be the operative word. School District administration is bloated and is in desparate need of reduction. There are too many non-teachers on the payroll that are simply not needed. Please note that in any public sector unit such as a school district that on average 60-65% of the taxpayer dollars go to salaries, benefits, pensions, and healthcare costs of employees (both working and retired). Cutting out the fat in the administration has the biggest impact on reallocating dollars to teachers and letting taxpayers keep their dollars while getting a better a product.

Just out of curiosity, would your opinion have been the same if this was proposed when you were in the prime of your teaching/earning career?