Yes, RAF. Glad you recognize the ignorance of your previous comment. Please, no swimming in the pool!

Poo based on your comment it is clear this is what the professor declared when he stated POOLING OF IGNORANCE.

Actually before RAF came back with some left wing drivel on the second post I think his FIRST post was spot on and a microchosm of many bloggers and people on the right that are jealous of Teachers and seem to hate them because they have worked hard for something that many others don't have.

""The American dream is a persons personal view point based on setting and working toward goals. Some are willing to invest their time and energy into a life's passion, through personal fulfilment they have made their dream. Others are worried their neighbors have more of something they don't have and feel deprived. Still others get upset others have more money than they do and make absurd claims their own American dream can't be met because they are not equal. These are the same people who will never be happy as they will always looking to see if others have more....what kind of dream is that.""

I think Santorums view of the dream was recently shown to us all, and probably that of many on the "far-right"--"", "I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money. I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money.""
Good to know that he doesn't want to give black people someone else's money. This is the new conservative alternative and the new right wing representative of the "american Dream".

Ah, yes,
Doogie Santorum, POTUS.

To get to the AMERICAN DREAM stop feeling sorry for your selfs

RhetoricAndFalderal said, "This goes back to what I said earlier, some just can't be happy in life if they think other people have more than they do."
-
Obviously, nobody gave RAF this month's Republican talking points memo! America doesn't allow for titles. We don't put people into classes. Well, maybe middle income people. Careful with your class warfare language RAF. Someone's going to get the idea you're Barack Obama!
-
"We're a country that don't allow for titles. We don't put people in classes. Maybe middle income people. But the idea, somehow or another, that we're going to buy into the class warfare arguments of Barack Obama is something that should not be part of the Republican lexicon. That's their job. Divide. Separate. Put one group against another. That's not the language that I'll use as president, I'll use the language of bringing people together." Rick Santorum, January 7, 2012 Republican presidential debate in New Hampshire

It depends on your definition of American "Dream". If it depends on ultimate government control of our lives all in the name of "fairness" then it is close. If it is getting people like you an others of your ilk out of any influential position then we are trying.

It is eerily apparent the left wingers are indeed clueless in their thought process. Claiming their idea of socialism is an equal starting point for all not the ending point that is important. If that was the case they wouldn't be claiming CEO X makes too much money. It is impossible in life to have an "equal" starting point for all. This goes back to what I said earlier, some just can't be happy in life if they think other people have more than they do.

Economics 101 is another source you might consider to understand the nature of economic systems. My list fits the proper definition of socialism perfectly. I find that right wingers have great difficulty coping with the reality that the economy of the United States contains aspects of both socialism and capitalism. They are so bent on portraying socialism as the most evil of evils that they close their minds to reality. And when you say that liberals want everyone to become the same, you have really stepped off the deep end. They want everyone to have the same opportunities....to have a level playing field to begin the game. It is the starting point, not the ending point, that they are concerned with. You might want to allow liberals to define themselves without attempting to do it for them.

Northman said, "When I say the liberals want everyone to become the same, they always assume they will be in the privileged class that always comes out of these systems."
-
How do you know what liberals always assume?

"I've not only pursued the American dream,
I've achieved it."
-- Kenneth Lay.

MadCityDad: Point well taken. In practice though, the two become harder to distinguish. The USSR was proudly “communist”, but there were clearly “haves” and “have-nots”. Ditto for China, Cuba, and most especially Korea. When I say the liberals want everyone to become the same, they always assume they will be in the privileged class that always comes out of these systems. They are very keen to tell us what to do for our own good, while exempting themselves from the same treatment.

Nv: I’ll refer you to a source you and Eyster seem to fancy, Wikipedia:
“Socialism /ˈsoʊʃəlɪzəm/ is an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and cooperative management of the economy; or a political philosophy advocating such a system.” The two keys here are “the means of production” and “management of the economy”.

Schools, police, fire departments, et al do not fit the definition because they have nothing to do with controlling production or managing the economy. They are simply organizations that exist to benefit the common welfare. Things like veteran’s benefits are even more ridiculous, because those are earned by those serving their country. You seem to think that anything paid for by tax dollars is an example of socialism, and you are just flat wrong.

You are certainly entitled to your own opinions, but not your own definitions or facts. If you don’t understand a concept, kindly refrain from lecturing the rest of us.

remember northman that socialism is different than communism. In a socialist system, people with greater talents and harder work WILL rise to the top and be rewarded while others are not.
.
It is in communism that everyone is more or less in the same boat (as you described in your first post) with a very small handful controlling and owning the means of production and ruling the gov't.

NVgrf about half of the items on your list should not be part of the Government. Home loans, va loans, colleges, student loans, railroads airports, and postal service. The goverment should NOT have their hands in these.

The "American Dream" is unsustainable.

Northman...You might want to go back to public school (Oh yes, another example of socialism) before you open your yap and criticize others.
Here's a little out of school education for you.
Our society is full of public programs that are examples of socialism.

I'll define the term for you first. "Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources." Here are a few examples of socialism in American society today:
1) public schools
2) higher education colleges and universities
3) student loans or grants
4) Vet benefits
5) the VA loan system
6) HUD/FHA low interest home loans
7) public libraries
8) public hospitals
9) public fire departments
10) public police departments
11) public parks and government campgrounds
12) Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid
13) food stamps, free school lunch program,utilities services
14) public highways, railroads, airports
15) the postal system

Socialist programs benefit everyone by spreading the cost for these programs among many people and having common ownership so the programs are maintained to benefit the majority of people, not just a privileged minority. Ours is a mixed economy, Northman. By that I mean a combination of capitalistic and socialistic ventures. I hope this helps you out.

Got new glasses, still have hard time reading the blog.

it used to be if you worked hard the dream could happen, didn't like your job? find another one. Didn't make enough money? go back to school and get promoted. Now the attitude is if i don't have it lets make sure nobody has it.....still can't fiqure out how this "protect" the wealthy and big corporations agenda, in state and federal governments (supported by politicians), became acceptable by so many struggling Americans? That is confusing?

This would be my version of pooling of ignorance, "BEFORE you comment, I trust YOU will read and evaluate the information developed by Dr. Ford. I hope this discussion will be one of DISCUSSING FACTS with various perspectives and NOT the pooling of ignorance! Too many discussions are really only a POOLING of IGNORANCE!"

The American dream is a persons personal view point based on setting and working toward goals. Some are willing to invest their time and energy into a life's passion, through personal fulfilment they have made their dream. Others are worried their neighbors have more of something they don't have and feel deprived. Still others get upset others have more money than they do and make absurd claims their own American dream can't be met because they are not equal. These are the same people who will never be happy as they will always looking to see if others have more....what kind of dream is that.

The "American Dream" still exists....for anyone willing to work for it, instead of waiting for handouts.
Unfortunately, most of the negativity and cynicism is caused by the media/bloggers, and the lack of leadership by the current Potus.

the American Dream.....to make just enough money to still qualify for all the welfare.

I have decide to post this message every time the Gazette posts one of J.Eyester's blogs.

Gazette, Please discontinue this blog.

Hopefully others will do the same.

"It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

Another good point Totellthetruth:

"Ignorance" is a lack of knowledge or data.
.
Not everybody knows the things Prof. Eyster knows.. Some of us readers know things Prof. Eyster does not know... If we don't know something we are ignorant eh?
.
Is qualification to discuss now a requirement Prof. Eyster? I'm really asking.
.
Or may we continue to discuss things on "YOUR" blog even if our minds may be devoid of some of your golden nuggets of wisdom? Or should some of us be silenced or easier for you volunteer to restrain (read muzzle) ourselves so that your pool is not contaminated with our ignorance?
.
When you make provocative statements like that Prof. Eyster, you darned well better be ready to elaborate on this whole pooling of ignorane thing... Not the kind of ending that invites winsome discussion and makes people of diverse viewpoints willing to participate..
Some readers/posters simply are so insulted that they open fire on you... It's merited (not the ugliness)... You took what otherwise could have been a good discussion and poluted it yourself with "schtik" beyond the typical provocative language and typesetting.

By reading your last two blogs I kinda thought you got the message from the posters and changed your perspective (even if it was just a slight change). And then today I see you are right back to your position of unbelievable arrogance and animosity for the people who read this online edition. Since you have decided to continue your campaign, I will resume mine.

I have decide to post this message every time the Gazette posts one of J.Eyester's blogs.

Gazette, Please discontinue this blog.

Hopefully others will do the same.

Northman,

Aside from the insults to the Prof. I think you have a "little" traction.. However, keep in mind that laying the blame for the attitudes of children gained, at the feet of public school, is a parental copout.
.
We spent plenty of time "unteaching" things our children learned in the California bay area public schools they attended. We did this until we could take no more and then sacrificed in order to homeschool them for the remainder of their secondary educations.. They understand they must work for what they want and one is dangerously close to his PHD at age 26 with almost zero debt.. The American Dream is alive and well.
.
Education in the schools is what it is.. A student learner can go quite far in the public system if they are taught at home to eat the meat and spit out the bones.
.
As far as public schools (primary/secondary) and socialisim goes... In order to gain Statehood a "territory" had to prove it had a plan in place for education, nothing more.. it was not federally funded or controlled in any way.. Does today's educational system resemble anything like that?

Nv: You would do everyone a great service if you learned what words mean before you try to use them in a sentence. Police, fire departments, libraries, et al, are most assuredly *not* examples of socialism. If you don’t “get it”, please invest the time to do some research.

When Fedup refers to “socialist educators”, I don’t believe he means schools are a socialist institution. I believe he’s referring to educators like Eyster whose viewpoint is so far left as to be very much socialistic, and since that viewpoint is rampant throughout the system, especially in higher education, our children are overly exposed to it and develop entitlement attitudes.

Pretty diverse views of the "American Dream"
.
The dream that arrived with the Pilgrims and got coined "American Dream" in the 1930's in the most general terms was about people having the FREEDOM to make a life for themselves.
.
Make a life for themselves.
.
Those people did not even think about depending on a government to do any of the work for them.. Their dream was to do it for themselves without the restraint of government.
.
Today's American Dream, for more people than populated the nation in the 1930's is about entitlements, and what the government can do for them and has nothing do do with doing the work themselves..
.
I read the Myths Prof. Eyster.
.
I Think China is for the most part totally misunderstood.. The faster China industrializes the better it us for America. They cannot be efficient in industry and abuse workers at the same time.. It's as impossible there as it is here.. We should be rooting for China to have great growth and succsess at home... They want what we have and it will take decades at the best for them to be able to get what they want from within.
.
There are cultural barriers to the American Dream, but the are overcome every day by people who by example, training or the grace of God are granted the motivation to view their futures and as a thing they can grow by hard work and determined effort... It worked 300 years ago and it works today.
.
We have forgotten that many folks died of disease and even starvation or freezing to death in search of the American dream... Many of those people perished with the sure knowledge that they had acieved that goal of their dream...
.
Most people I know have not stopped to consider what brings joy into their lives and exactly how much is enough!
.
Good thought provoking article Prof.

In fact, being the anti-socialistic person that you are, here is something that you would probably support:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/upshot/rural...

Feduptaxpayer....And how do you propose that these unemployed loafers work when the so-called "job creators" are only willing to creat jobs overseas and not here. They have obtained more and more wealth throughout the recession, while those people you insist don't want to work have lost their jobs. And please feel free to explain what you mean by "socialistic educators." If you mean those who support how the fire departments, police departments, public libraries and military are set up, then there are probably many.

The dream used to be to live in the suburbs, get married, and have 2.5 children, have a job and live happily ever after.
-
Today people are lazy and demand higher pay and want to do less work, so China stepped in and stole their job. Now, finding someone to marry is hard, morals are gone. people cant discipline their kids anymore without getting arrested so girls are knocked up at 14yrs old and have 2.5 kids before they are 18 by 3.5 different guys. One out of a couple usually wants the other to support them and offer nothing, so the whole marriage things doesnt last. You RARELY see anyone under 30 in a marriage that lasts anymore. And also "keeping up with the Jones'" now involves living with 99% of your assets owned by the bank and living paycheck to paycheck. Americans no longer save money like the people born in the depression and shortly after did. So one small hiccup in someones work field, time off, layoff, sick leave, or termination leaves them and if they do have a family completely up shi# creek without a paddle. Also our education system did not evolve as our people did.

"My dream is of a place and a time
where America will once again be seen
as the last best hope of earth."

I believe that the most threatened aspect of the American Dream, as outlined in Ford's article, is his quoting of Truslow, who described the necessity of the Dream being available to "every man." I believe that the American Dream is, and always has, been fluid, not static. Historical events, for instance, have caused the Dream to change throughout the history of our great nation. Certainly, as we emerge from this recession for example, the Dream is already being reshaped through the downsizing of American appetites. The greed of economic want will and must be reined. But my concern goes back to Truslow. However this Dream is shaped and reshaped throughout our history, it must be available to "every man." I am afraid that Truslow would see this basic American belief as under severe attack today. Corporate greed has been a major force in the destruction of the middle class in America; the very group that embraced an American Dream more than any other. If we do not reinvigorate the "every man" ideal, whatever the current notion of the American Dream is, it will no longer matter.

What is the American Dream? Well, that depends on to whom you talk. For early settlers, the dream was to escape religious oppression and – in spite of great risk and hardship – make a new life in a land of great freedom and unlimited opportunity. For our founding fathers, the dream was to escape the heinous shackles of British oppression, banish the concept of royalty and hereditary rule, and create a country where everyone had guaranteed freedoms and rights. Both groups strongly believed that reward and prosperity would come from initiative and hard work.

Today, we have two sharply divided visions of the American Dream. Liberals believe that that success is bad and should be punished by dunning anyone deemed to be “rich”. They believe that capitalism is inherently evil, and should be closely monitored and regulated, even if the result is running business out of the country. They believe that government is inherently good, and should be expanded and given power over every aspect of a person’s life. And they believe that socialism is good, and entitlement programs are an inherent right. Their Dream is that everyone becomes the same, has the same things, the same housing, the same type of job, and that no one can use their skill, talents, or hard work to have more than another. The Conservatives believe that success comes from working hard and taking risks, and that you’re entitled to the rewards you reap, but also entitled to live with the consequences of your failure. They believe that capitalism is both good and necessary, and that job creation comes only from individuals and businesses, never from government regulation. They believe that government is a necessary evil, which must be minimized and kept as much as possible out of people’s lives. Their Dream is much like the early American Dream, and they see the liberal version destroying the way of life this country has pioneered and enjoyed for the last 200 years.

So, the “Dream” isn’t dead, but instead has suffered a crippling schism. I know which version I prefer, and absolutely cannot understand why you value your version.