FINALLY..Those BUSH tax cuts will EXPIRE! Yay….. If Congress does nothing, the ax will fall on all the Bush tax cuts on New Year's Eve…. Then, on January 1, the public pressure on John Boehner and House Republicans to extend the middle-class tax cuts (already passed by the Senate and waiting to be signed by President Obama) will become irresistible.….So the middle-class tax cut will eventually get renewed, and we'll have $823 billion more revenue from the top 2% to do great things with... The wealthy need to pay their fair share! Never mind trying to buy the election for special favors and BIG tax breaks! It didn't work..because we are WATCHING and VOTING in our families best interest!

I say NO COMPROMISE. Let it GO OVER THE CLIFF!
It is far and away THEE BEST thing that can happen for us now! We are so beyond screwed at this point anyway, why just delay the inevitable. Let it COLLAPSE. Hit the reset button and START OVER!
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No, I am not being sarcastic. This is totally fact based. When you need an extra 40 cents of every dollar of revenue on collected on credit just to run the government, you have problems BEYOND fixable. You could tax those evil rich capitalists at 100% and it would barely make a dent in the yearly deficit.. You would need HUGE tax increases and massive budget cuts to get to balance. And once at balance you still have $17 trillion or so of back debt on the books!
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We are totally screwed at some point. Might as well just get it over with and let it collapse-go over the cliff. However; that will never happen unfortunately. What WILL happen is they will make a meaningless token compromise that has minor tax increases on the upper bracket, and minor budget cuts. All just to get the debt ceiling RAISED...AGAIN! Both sides will run out claim victory, and how great a day it is for America. When the debt ceiling is increased AGAIN, then you just push it all off to good ole uncle Ben at the federal reserve. Where he will buy up the debt with $$$'s he creates from thin air...MORE QE BABY! Markets will all rally once more printed $$$ is POURED into the economy again..EVERYTHING SOLVED. RIIIIIIGHT
Make no doubt, this is what will happen, my friends!

John...will Obama do what the people elected him to do or is he working for the rich too and this whole thing was a dog and pony show?
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Will the grand compromise just be slight of hand for the common person? Time will tell...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIdQBqstc...

And the spin machine keeps whirling.

The switch to GDP indexed numbers after years of using raw debt numbers as your preferred format was necessary to make the numbers appear to support your story, RAF.

I'm looking forward to your next use of debt numbers as a percentage of GDP.

Johnson is a VERY RIGHT WING Senator? really? he is fiscally conservative but outside of that what indication is there he is VERY RIGHT WING? The use of labels is tiring the practice of mislabelling is dangerous.

woody
Why are you quoting me???

If I forgot to post a link, why not just provide it? People who find little things to pick on people for are one of two things...little minded, or bullies.

Motorman
why do you post such hateful comments about people? I have never said the things you accuse me of.

"scary 'libruhls holding back decent folks like her from living an all white, all christian 1950's fantasy reminicent of the movie pleasantville."

You should be ashamed of yourself.

poo uttered "why not do the math and provide the raw numbers that are not GDP indexed", after being provided with this information "if you want to see the real numbers behind revenue, spending, and GDP during the last 9 years may I suggest you drop out of ogor mode and attempt to learn something"; HINT, try google.

So again, your only comment has nothing to do with John's topic only a choice made by another poster on the use of GDP % vs raw numbers.

...oh yeah; A person whose sole purpose in life is to seek out people to argue with on the internet over extremely trivial issues....is a what?

Yes, there is something of substance related to the blog entry to the extent it is in response to your comment. Is it not legitimate to question your use of GDP indexed numbers used in your comment when you have repeatedly refused to use GDP indexed debt figures in the past?

You just said, "Math is SIMPLE." So, why not do the math and provide the raw numbers that are not GDP indexed?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/U...

Twist and spin...out for another stroll poo?

The reason "real numbers" and not percentage of GDP are used when talking about debt levels under Clinton is because that is what the US treasury uses to track, to the penny, what our nation’s debt is. Clearly the national debt has risen each year since 1957 and the reason leftists, like yourself, want to talk about percentage of debt to GDP is to falsely claim our national debt went down under Clinton with faux claims of a budget surplus. If there were any surplus the national debt would have decreased, in real numbers, but it never did. Trying to twist the economic gains of the internet boom to hide debt increases might serve your sycophantic reasons but it hardly is truthful when shown debt increased every year under Clinton.

Now if you want to see the real numbers behind revenue, spending, and GDP during the last 9 years may I suggest you drop out of ogor mode and attempt to learn something. Was there anything of substance you wanted to bring to the topic John brought up or has your deflection been it?

I love it. RAF finally found a use for comparing numbers as a percent of GDP! Will wonders never cease? I've been trying to get him to talk debt as a percentage of GDP for 4 years now with little luck. Just in the last couple of days he again insisted on using raw debt numbers. Now this... Why the sudden conversion, RAF? Have you finally seen the light? Or do your numbers work better for you when taken as a percentage of GDP in this case? Please do tell.

What an utterly miss informational posting by the local LEFT WING blogger. The tax rates that are in effect now are the same that have been in place over 9 years. During the first 5 years of that time revenues to the national government increased EVERY year. During that first 5 years our nation had a budget EVERY year. During that first 5 years our bloated national spending (deficit) was OVER 3 times lower than the past 4 years.

Over the last 3 years the democratic controlled US senate and the current administration REFUSED to do their constitutional responsibility and pass a national budget. This obstruction has led to 4 years of RECORD deficits, each OVER 1 TRILLION DOLLARS. All of this occurred with our newest senator, with all her self-professed math skills, in the US house where she voted AGAINST every budget put to a vote. Go, TAMMY GO???

The FISCAL CLIFF is a direct result of failed fiscal policies during the past 4 years and the FAILURE by the democratic party, running the US Senate and the White House, from doing their jobs. Declaring NOW is the time and no more EXCUSES is three YEARS LATE!

I suggest the partisan hacks step away from the huff post and talking points informational sources and begin looking at where we are as a nation and what got us to this point. Pretending you want our leadership to begin FINNALY doing their job while you sat silent over this failure for the last three years just shows how inept and uninformed you have been to this point.

YEAR tax $ to GDP
2003 16.2
2004 16.1
2005 17.3
2006 18.2
2007 18.5
2008 17.6
2009 15.1
2010 15.1
2011 15.1

As shown tax collections increased even after rates went down, until the economy failed reducing GDP. Increasing tax rates would have only slowed the economy more. Yet during all this govt spending in relation to GDP increased from 19% to over 23%. Math is SIMPLE.

But by all means don’t believe my words, look it up! Here is but just one source.

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles...

Some people may not know who Grover Norquist is though. He is the billionaires best friend...
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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/new...

"wislady passes on info from Trump?"
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NO, wislady does clip and paste from right wing wacko site. Can't you come up with anything on your own? (plagiarism)

Grover Norquist is in a tizzy.

Good PBS show: Park Avenue: Money, Power & The American Dream. It said Paul Ryan gets more money from the Koch's than ANY other person in congress. Now you know who he works for...

wislady passes on info from Trump?

NVgrf
No, he has not. Remember one of the first things he said..."We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”

More comments....

APRIL 9, 2009 – "And we will not rest until we reach a day when not one single veteran falls into homelessness"

MAY 11, 2009 – "I will not rest until the dream of health care reform is finally achieved in the United States of America"

NOVEMBER 2, 2009 – "We will not rest until we are succeeding in generating the jobs that this economy needs"

NOVEMBER 23, 2009 – "I will not rest until business are investing again, and businesses are hiring again"

JANUARY 28, 2010 - "We will not rest until we build an economy that's ready for America's future"

MARCH 5 2010 – "I’m not gonna rest & my administration is not gonna rest in our efforts to help people who are looking to find a job"

MAY 26, 2010 – "We will not rest until this well is shut, the environment is repaired and the clean up is complete"

JULY 8, 2010 – "My administration will not rest until every American who is able and ready and willing to work can find a job"

Maybe he didn't rest, but he surely had a lot of time for golf, campaigning, and travel.

The only part of him that got a work out was the hand that was busy signing executive orders. When he was too busy for that, he just used the auto pen.

Woman takes car and runs over husband for not voting.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-5754...

Interesting.....will a bunch of millionairs vote to stop Bush's tax breaks for the rich?

wislady.....Stop listening to Rush and the talking heads. Obama HAS attempted to work across the aisle for four years. They followed through on what they said the day after he was elected to his first term....that their primary effort for the next four years would be to make sure he was no re-elected. What a great attitude!

dtb: You have it bass acwards. It was Obama who refuses to work with the republicans, and hasn't came up with a balanced budget in the last 4 years! Oboma needs to get rid of the it's my way or no way attitude!

But will the repubs work with Obama? They've been obstructing him for 4 years now. What makes anyone think they will stop now?

I predict that the Bush tax cuts will be renewed for all but those making $500,000 or more and probably for only a year.
Sequestration will be kicked down the road to the next (same) congress and the next (same) Senate.
As to what will happen next will depend on who controls the Democratic party. The moderate democrats in the party need to prevail over the far left that now controls the party. If the moderates cannot pull President Obama toward the center their will be no improvement to the economy and the Democrats will be out in the wilderness in 2016.

Everyone has their own idea as to what is best for the country.

For once I agree with Wislady.

+1 to falling off of the cliff.....letting ALL of Bush/Obama tax cuts expire provided that the federal government creates a budget outlining serious spending cuts is the only way to get to get a handle on the insane levels of deficits that the country is running.......that would be the "big bite" that you should be referring to......no??

Now is the time for Obama to follow Clinton's example, working with republicans for solutions.

Outstanding! What Fiscal Cliff? This is the FIRST time you bothered mentioning this. Not one word BEFORE the election. Gee, what do you think we think about your partisan silence? And when the entire truth comes out concerning Libya, you'll write another brilliant article as if you never heard of it before. What do you really think we think? I think you don't really want to know.

Fall off the cliff. Cut the spending and raise taxes. We need to stop giving into our aversion to pain and quit passing the buck onto the future generations.

“According to ThinkProgress, 53,952,240 votes were cast for Democratic candidates, while Republican candidates received 53,402,643.” Eminently meaningless numbers apropos of nothing at all. If you flail around enough, you can find numbers that seeming support any silly position.

“I think the FILIBUSTER RULE … should be changed to provide for the RULE OF THE MAJORITY.” I think that’s what we hear every time the Dems control the Senate. And as soon as the Republicans take over, you can be sure the NY Times, Puffington Host, et al, start singing its praises all over again. I think you better be careful what you wish for.

“NOW is the HOUR to move to a GRAND COMPROMISE!” It’s telling that as soon as the election results were in, Chicago’s “Rahmfather” predicted a wonderful new surge of federal money for him to start spending. When Obama and Harry and Nancy say “compromise”, they mean they want new taxes so they can pay for new spending. If your new hero Tammy is such a math prodigy, have her explain to you how long you can keep spending more than you’re making. Then have her tell show you the dollar amount you get from “soaking the rich”, and how little that covers the deficit, never mind the existing debt. Anybody who managed to get through high school algebra should be able to comprehend that the present course is unsustainable. Current spending is at historic – and obscene – levels, and it’s going to get worse as the other Obamacare provisions kick in. New taxes are a band-aid; huge spending cuts are mandatory, the only question is how long we wait before we act.